Curse

c0c0c0 · Oct 13, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Until such time as I can go buy my glasses or whatever else my heart desires without having to work on a title I don't want, it will always be to much.

It would be difficult for me to imagine a sentiment for which I could have less sympathy. There is no significant goal in this game that can not be achieved by simply playing through the game. Not one. No uber weapon, no invulnerable armor. Nothing. There are, however, quite a few items of esoteric value that can be gained if you want to work for them. They are nothing but flash, badges of honor.

I'm sorry but if you want bragging rights, you have to earn them. Otherwise, there is no point.

hallomik · Oct 13, 2007, 01:22 PM // 13:22

I want to second Kakumei's agreement with Kas.

It is only grind if you're repeatedly making yourself do something you don't really want to. If that's really the case, please take a step back and think about taking a break from the game. It almost sounds like addiction.

With respect to Freek's prolific thread posting, I say keep it up. Any time Freek has a suggestion, it is always from the perspective of improving the game. He NEVER makes a post just to feel sorry for himself.

Too many other Guru posters write these interminable, self-pitying screeds - never Freek.

Do I agree with everything he posts? No. Do I want him to slow down? Hell no.

Jongo River · Oct 13, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by c0c0c0

It would be difficult for me to imagine a sentiment for which I could have less sympathy. There is no significant goal in this game that can not be achieved by simply playing through the game. Not one. No uber weapon, no invulnerable armor. Nothing. There are, however, quite a few items of esoteric value that can be gained if you want to work for them. They are nothing but flash, badges of honor.

I'm sorry but if you want bragging rights, you have to earn them. Otherwise, there is no point.

Now, you see, that argument makes me nauseous. I'm not saying you're wrong exactly - clearly Anet has designed these options to be hard earned. But to me it makes no sense that character customization should even be about honor or prestige, and certainly not "bragging rights".

Sure there's room for a few high-end expensive items, but everything in GW:EN locked down as some kind of achievement? Uuugh.

I suppose this argument comes down to Sloth vs Pride. I'd enjoy the game more if I could just drag my ass through it, picking up goodies along the way - others seem determined that everything should have a high cost, so everyone else knows how great they are for having them.

I'll never understand the mentality of the latter, but make no mistake, we're all damned for taking it this seriously.

elektra_lucia · Oct 13, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aethon

Grind is still grind, there's just less of it now.

It's like if someone keeps punching you, you think they're not nice. But then they slow down the punching and you think, "Wow, this is great because he isn't punching me as much as he could!"

Lol, so true.

Chris Blackstar · Oct 13, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

It's a distraction from there real motives, the weekend makes it easy, but it's onl;y a weekend.

Nevin · Oct 13, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

I would like my rep points to be increased, as I have handed in two hero books and a dungeon book prior to the update. Thats a missing 85,000 reputation points, 40-45% of the title I've been working on.

Haven't logged in yet, so I don't know if they did this yet.

cthulhu reborn · Oct 13, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

I don't care that the treadmill is easy to run; I resent being forced to be on a treadmill.

Sorry but this comment is nonesense. If you are being serious then it means that you resent having to do anything at all.
Just cause you have to walk out and kill something at least once doesn't make it a treadmill.
You only need 26k rep to get armour and you can easily get that by doing the dungeon book alone...

I am glad with this change cause now I can get my armours without grinding and that was the main point of the complaints so far.

I do agree that it is lame to start this thread the way the OP did. A bit silly really. By doing it he simply brought it up in the spotlight again instead of letting the complaints fade away...

Blame the Monks · Oct 13, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Sorry but this comment is nonesense. If you are being serious then it means that you resent having to do anything at all.
Just cause you have to walk out and kill something at least once doesn't make it a treadmill.

A treadmill is being forced to perform repetitive acts for no other reason then to erect a barrier to accessing other parts of the game. Its sole purpose is to lengthen the game at the expense of fun. Why should I have to farm kournian packs just to move on? Why can't I move on when i feel ready? If you want to farm packs for fun, you can. But I can't move on without investing the hours of grinding. When I am forced to farm titles to advance in the storyline, its grind. Requiring you to beat a prior mission to advance is not grind, its normal gameplay. Requiring you to bring me 15 wolf pelts to pass is grind, and a major step away from quality gameplay.

Grinding for meaningless titles like seeker of wisdom and such promoted degenerate and unfun gameplay, but to make it worse the game started to reward grind by giving you better skills and so on purely because of grind. Now the game is requiring grind as a condition to advance in the storyline. This is horrible gameplay. Give me quality, don't force me to grind and call it content.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind_(gaming)

Lacroix · Oct 13, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Blame the Monks, where and when exactly do you HAVE to farm the title to continue in GW:EN? I played through the game, and I beat it at r2-3 each title. I got all of those points through quests that were needed go through the game.

No one, no one, NO one is forcing you to grind/farm/do ANYthing for these titles.

Zinger314 · Oct 13, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacroix

Blame the Monks, where and when exactly do you HAVE to farm the title to continue in GW:EN?

Therein lies the flaw. If you don't grind in GW:EN, all that there is is the main quest, which, clocking in about 9-10 hours so I hear, is not worth the $40 for EotN (and is also the reason I still refuse to purchase it).

Although the books help out a ton, it's still a masochistic tendency toward nihilism.

Karyuu · Oct 13, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I think people are forgetting that GWEN is an expansion and not a separate campaign, and as such, is content only for those who are bored with everything else and need some new activities to hold them over. So to me, it makes sense that you have to play through everything to get something out of it. If you're handed items and armors on a silver platter a few days into the game, you're going to be bored again and whine about having nothing to do afterwards.

A lot of people already got r5 in at least one faction (or very close) by playing through the game before this update - that's casual, not hardcore gamers. If you leave getting r5 in Deldrimor for dungeons, which is going to be very easily achieved since you're tackling them all, and use your books for another faction, that's at the very least two r5s after completing the game. It really should be three, because you're probably going to have a good number of points all over, and a single book will push you to the armor crafter. You have two books. Then you're left with one other title track, which you can either ignore or go after if you have nothing else to do in GW.

But please don't make it seem like having to play through all the content in GWEN is somehow a chore and you should be entitled to armors beforehand. If you don't want GWEN missions and dungeons, then just don't play at all and forget about the expansion entirely. It's not for you. Plenty of other people however are having fun.

Lacroix · Oct 13, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Whether or not you believe the cost of the game justifies the amount of content in it is up to you. I paid the $40, yes, and I fully enjoyed the game for what it was.

That "flaw" has, quite honestly, nothing to do with the argument. The fact of the matter was that people felt that they needed to grind their way through the title, when, in reality... they didn't.

Also, you're just including the main quest in your 9-10 hours. What about the optional dungeons? The side quests? Learning a bit more lore about the game's world. While it may not add 100 hours to the game, it was fun.

warren_kn · Oct 13, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

I think people are forgetting that GWEN is an expansion and not a separate campaign, and as such, is content only for those who are bored with everything else and need some new activities to hold them over. So to me, it makes sense that you have to play through everything to get something out of it. If you're handed items and armors on a silver platter a few days into the game, you're going to be bored again and whine about having nothing to do afterwards.

A lot of people already got r5 in at least one faction (or very close) by playing through the game before this update - that's casual, not hardcore gamers. If you leave getting r5 in Deldrimor for dungeons, which is going to be very easily achieved since you're tackling them all, and use your books for another faction, that's at the very least two r5s after completing the game. It really should be three, because you're probably going to have a good number of points all over, and a single book will push you to the armor crafter. You have two books. Then you're left with one other title track, which you can either ignore or go after if you have nothing else to do in GW.

But please don't make it seem like having to play through all the content in GWEN is somehow a chore and you should be entitled to armors beforehand. If you don't want GWEN missions and dungeons, then just don't play at all and forget about the expansion entirely. It's not for you. Plenty of other people however are having fun.

QFT.

In addition, as unlike some people I don't do +1 count posts I'll add onto this that not only is the game not for some people, but the genre of game.

Apart from the SS points, of which you need pitifully few, there is no comulsory grind in this game. So what if extra points improve your PvE skills, it's still optional. If you feel you absolutely MUST max out that title to make that skill uber powerful, that's your deficiency not the game's. There's nothing masochistic about it. Don't do it if you don't like doing it.

freekedoutfish · Oct 13, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estic

40k is for dungeon's. Hero handbook is 20k in normal mode. See: Click

Note that the dungeon book is above the hero book and not the other way around.

Ok I got that a bit wrong, but 20k is still alot and helps get you from on rank to another very easily.

Bankai · Oct 13, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Wow.

I really can't understand the bitching.

I could understand the bitching of people about how they couldn't get the r5 armors.

Now, ANet added a way to easily get to r5.

And people start bitching that it takes long to max the title.

Maxing a title is supposed to be only for those who are willing to waste a lot of time.

Spazzer · Oct 13, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

I don't care that the treadmill is easy to run; I resent being forced to be on a treadmill.

You don't need to get any of the GWEN titles to beat the campaign. Your complaint is not as legitimate as the one against Sunspear title.

Operative 14 · Oct 13, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

It would be difficult for me to imagine a sentiment for which I could have less sympathy. There is no significant goal in this game that can not be achieved by simply playing through the game. Not one. No uber weapon, no invulnerable armor. Nothing. There are, however, quite a few items of esoteric value that can be gained if you want to work for them. They are nothing but flash, badges of honor.

I'm sorry but if you want bragging rights, you have to earn them. Otherwise, there is no point.

Oh, yes, I had a great time last night running around LA shouting in all chat "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! I HAVE NORN ARMOR!!". I bought it for the way it looks, not the bragging rights. If you're buying it for bragging rights you have other issues to worry about.

-

As far as I know, there is no Norn/Vanguard/Asuran reputation point bonus for actually finishing the game. So you're stuck with staying in a specific area to get those points. Then you can do the quests, that netted me about 7k reputation points, and after that you have the dungeons. I can't go in the dungeons, at least not now, becuase I don't have the time it takes to finish a five level dungeon. Finishing that two level dungeon outside of Sifhalla was a stretch for me, time wise. So the only option left for the other 19k of reputation was to kill everything in Varajar Falls 10+ times. Woot.

I would like to iterate, yet again, that I do not mind having to do the work to get the armor. If the requirement for getting the armor crafter was story based, not title based, where you have to finish a series of five, or even ten quests, I would be happy with that. What I resent is having to go out and repetatively kill things so that I can get to a superfluous limit that was arbitrarally set. None of the other games had a limit for buying things. The only thing even remotely comparable are the Luxon/Kruzick merchants in the towns, and those titles are account wide so you don't have to do it more than once.

Or make it so that it is account wide, and I can earn this reputation by playing through with my characters, and I don't have to do it more than once.

Or make it so that at the end of the game you directly get 26,000 in each reputation title for finishing the main storyline. Defeating the Great Destroyer should be a worthy enough task for 26,000 points, don'tcha think?

Vinraith · Oct 13, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

A certain segment of the community is never going to stop complaining about the fact that they have to play the game to get rewards. Presumably these are the same people that play through FPS games in god mode and give themselves a billion dollars to start with in SimCity. I've never understood the mentality, I never will, but Anet has definitely gone out of their way to accommodate it at this point. That's fine, but surely we're at a reasonable compromise point now, no matter how much some people want everything for free (don't ask me what they plan to do with it, since it you get everything for no effort there's no more game to play anyway).

Vinraith · Oct 13, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

As far as I know, there is no Norn/Vanguard/Asuran reputation point bonus for actually finishing the game.

Finish the game and hand in a heroes handbook and you get 20k faction of your choice. So yes, there is, and it's huge. Do the same in hard mode and it's even better. At this point all you have to do to get rank 5 in the track of your choice is play through the game and do some quests in that area. That's IT. Anyone still complaining is complaining about having to play the game at all, from what I can tell, or hasn't read the update.

Karyuu · Oct 13, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I had rank 3 in the Norn title track way before finishing the missions. But I was also hugging the walls to explore each zone in full as I first entered it, instead of immediately following the green arrow each and every time. I never farmed Norn points, I never zoned in and out to make several repeated runs. Bam, r3. Finish all the missions to complete your Hero Handbook, and bam, Norn armor.

Don't make it seem so difficult, it's certainly not true.